On Saving Money For Gas

[From Collecting My Thoughts:]

And if you are a Greenie, accept the credit and take a bow for these prices. You’ve kept the oil refineries from being built. You’ve stopped the drilling for oil on American soil. You’ve halted a lot of industry in the USA so we could have cleaner air, chasing people out of the cities where they had public transportation. People are reducing their driving because of you, especially poor people driving older, less fuel efficient cars. Be proud and puffed up when you hear your co-workers bitching. Smile. It’s all your fault.

I don’t know about all their fault, but nevertheless…

Timotheos

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13 thoughts on “On Saving Money For Gas

  1. Stick your head out the window and look around, you’ll see it.
    The same people whining about being in a war over oil in a foreign country are the same ones who said “Don’t drill in our country, yet I want fuel to be cheap.”
    It is a mad mad mad mad mad mad world we live in.

  2. Despite the whining about oil drilling, there is still oil drilling all over the world, off the California coast, off the Gulf Coast, all over Los Angeles, abroad, etc.

    I just asked for evidence that the current run up in oil prices is the fault of environmentalists, either wholly or in large part.

    The runup in oil prices can be explained by tension in the middle east and by rising demand from China.

  3. The current run up in gas prices is not the fault of environmentalists, it is more the fault of world market oil futures speculation.

    However, the fact that we have no new refineries with which to cause competition to keep the prices reasonbale IS a direct fault of environmentalists.

    Our so-called dependecy on foreign oil is also partly a fault of environmentalists not allowing us to drill in our own rich oil fields. We are forced to complete on the global market for our crude, and are at the mercy of world market futures speculation.

    A third issue where environmentalists hurt us is in creating different laws in different states/regions dictating what kind of additives and fuel mixes can be sold. Some of these laws make sense, but in other cases it greatly increases the complication of refineries and distributors to supply such a wide variation of fuel mixes.

    More refineries spread out amongst the various regions, supplying specific fuel mixes to that specific region would go a long way to aleviating our fuel problems.

    And allowing our own oil companies to drill and pump their own oil from Americas own oil fiels would alleviate us being at the direct mercy of world economic market manipulation.

  4. How many applications/plans to build refineries have been turned down on environmental grounds?

    We are not so short of oil that we need to drill in our national parks.

    As for Alaska National Wildlife Refuge driling, the environmentalists could not stop it without broad support from the American public.

    The drilling off the Alantic coast of Florida and the Pacific Coast of Northern California was not in fact stopped by environmentalists, but widespread opposition from voters of both parties including Republicans as Jeb Bush, Schwarzenegger, and Pete Wilson.

    The environmentalists have really only succeeded when they had the public behind them, otherwise, their ideas don’t get much traction.

    So, all your arguments are trying to blame the American people for caring about their environment and basically saying, “we need oil, but we shouldn’t drill in pristine places”. You can’t hang that on a few hardcore environmentalists.

  5. I understand your arguments David. And I’m not trying to start an argument. I am willing to agree to disagree.

    I’m not really trying to blame anyone for caring about the environment. I actually work in the Environmental/Safety business. I’m not against all environmental/green actions, and I’m a big supporter of alternative fuel technologies, especially biodiesels.

    But the basic issues we discuss here would not impact the environment in the way that extremist environmentalists would lead us to believe.

    Just a couple points to follow up.

    The public support against drilling in Anwar is base mostly on misleading information coming from the environmental/green side of the aisle. The National Park area they show on the TV adds is nowhere near the oil fields reserves that would actually be drilled in. Yes, both are considered National lands, Parks even. But the oil fields were included as national lands because they are oil fields, not because the represent any special “park” areas. It’s basically flat empty tundra.

    In addition, our drilling technologies and reclamation technologies are very very good. The migration habitats of the carribou would not be hindered such as environmentalists claim, and any damage to the ground would be quickly fixed because of all the oversight that would take place.

    And Yes, we do not specifically need to drill in Anwar as long as we get our crude from foriegn oil fields. However, we would be much less dependent on foreign oil if we did so. And it is the manipulation of foreign oil on the world market that is currently driving up our pump prices.

    Regarding the Atlantic and Pacific coast drilling. Yes, public support against drilling caused Jeb Bush, Schwarzenegger, and Pete Wilson to oppose it. But, again, how much of that public opinion was based on false claims by environmentalists? A lot.

  6. Solid opposition to the coastal oil drilling among the public in Northern California is based on some bad oil spills that environmentalists did not cause ;o) (Santa Barbara, Alaska, etc.)

    I’m not trying to argue with you over your key points. And disagreeing is not a bad thing necessarily.

    What I was trying to do was counter the argument that environmentalists caused the recent run up in gasoline costs in whole or in large part. They didn’t and the lack of evidence is confirming that.

    That’s really what I’m arguing. We can get into the back and forth of policy debate, but that gets me away from countering that old chestnut –environmentalists drove up your gas prices.

    Environmental policy is the same or more relaxed than when gas was $2/gallon.

  7. True David, as I agreed previously, the current price problem is primarily a consequence of futures trading on the world crude market.

  8. I dunno David. It’s a risky thing right now. Tough game to play risking money when the prices are up. But if we find ourselves at war with Iran, and Iranian oil stops flowing,.. lots of wold markets are going to come up short,.. and crude will suddenly (at least temporarily) be worth MUCH more that either one of us can possibly guess.

  9. Wow, what an ignorant poem. What it does well, though, is spark debate–mostly because people often forget there are those in this world who are blind to common sense–unable to look past themselves to realize the world is inhabited by other things.

  10. Oh boys…have you done your research? The US (so far) has done a great job of balancing the economy, keeping our forest lands and off shore intact, and keeping gas prices down. I’ll ride the bus before I see an oil rig of the coast of San Diego! How ’bout you? give up that Navigasser yet? 🙂

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